Tesla needs to be a co-defendent in this case.
As does DoorDash
I would support that as well. That is a toxic company.
Because they let you press the juice pedal with an annoying warning while in fsd mode?
Because FSD pulls drivers into a sense of complacensyct, so when something goes wrong a panic reaction can cause catastrophic consequences.
I have a neighbor who says she watches YouTube videos while driving between Florida and Virginia. So much for being aware and ready to take control…
I have cruise control in my car, and not the smart cruise control that slows you down if some arsehole pulls out right in front of you. I rented a Toyota Camry for a month that did that. While mine was in the shop. It could also change lanes without you touching the steering wheel. It wasn’t FSD, but it could take turns for you. I feel the tech was there, but it wasn’t enabled, but it could do it in short bursts. Anyway, MY car doesn’t have the adaptive cruise control, just the regular.
My point is, if I’m cruising at 40 and the speed limit drops to 20kph and I get a speeding ticket for not reducing speed, I can’t say “well I had cruise on.” Sure, but it’s up to you to reduce the speed. FSD doesn’t absolve you of liability, it’s still your car and your responsibility. Not sure how people don’t get that. I mean, fuck the elongated muskrat and fuck the regime he’s propping up, but let’s not go crazy and act like Teslas and other EVs aren’t a net positive for the environment. Sure, they have their flaws, but making them out to be murder machines is straight-up false. If you don’t want that much tech in your car (I don’t — I just want my music and Maps, so I use an aftermarket CarPlay from China and pair to that), don’t buy a Tesla. Pretty simple. I kinda want a Tesla though. But I’d rather have a BYD. They’re more cost efficient, I think. And I’d rather not support the fascist muskrat.
They are making a defective, misleading product. Cruise control is not marketed as making the vehicle autonomous, and people don’t expect it to be. But Tesla does, and people do. They share responsibility with the negligent drivers.
Sure, but if they say you have to be in control at all times to pass blame then they need to call it driver assist or something other than “full self driving”.
They can call it whatever they want, the bottom line is that a human is behind the wheel and ultimately they’re responsible.
And I think it has been well established at this point that fsd isn’t ready yet, that it’s not safe. The fact that they call it “full self driving” is cute… but it’s marketing, it’s not a get out of jail free card.
Edit: Hah. So many down votes! Well go ahead, down vote personal responsibility! I mean, suggesting maybe people are responsible for the choices they make, fuck me right!
Tesla should be held at least partially responsible for being intentionally misleading in how they named their fancy cruise control.
it’s not even good cruise control
That video is from 2 years ago, if you want to be a naysayer you have to keep up or the tech will march right past you.
actually watch the damn video, tesla has gotten worse not better lol
so everyone else over the last two years getting better just makes the gap worse
well my car has driven 3892 of the last 3975 miles it has travelled, I don’t know what to tell you other than it works very well. Neither your hatred for progress nor some youtube grifter’s nonsense will convince me to disregard my lived experience.
Okay, so the name sucks, but if my kid breaks her laptop, I still gotta pay it. I didn’t break it. The kid broke it. But it’s still my responsibility.
I don’t have a kid. If I did, I’d hope I had a kid who wouldn’t break nice things. But, let’s be real. Kids and cats break nice things. I also don’t have a Tesla. But if you own something (or you have a pet or a child) you are still responsible for what they do.
It’s going to be interesting if we ever get those cars that go out on our behalf and do ride sharing gigs while we’re at work, earning back the money they spend keeping themselves charged. I wanna say one of the EV makers floated that idea. It never happened. But if it did, while you’re at work your car does damage. Who are they going to blame? Maybe you have insurance that covers it. But you’d still be responsible.
except the name is literally fraud
You may want to familiarize yourself with marketing, before you indict half the economy.
But the name is “Fill Self Driving (Supervised)”. See, no fraud, just a balance of marketing and legaleze, lying and technicalities
don’t care about business speak
charge the rest of them too
the world could do with less business majors
This argument is just bonkers. Are you conflating a child and a corporations claim for a car to be fully self driving? These aren’t even comparable things.
I’ve never seen a 16 year old corporation charged with murder and tried as an adult.
yeah if its named absolutely no liabilty to you we will take all the blame because we guarantee our car has full self driving capability. well thats just a name. it does not mean anything.
Full self driving*
*Not full self driving at all
Seems fair and not confusing at all right?
100% real gold that has the same value of real gold and is priced as such*
*fake gold that is just spray painted dog shit
yeah its rediculous to think someone would think something about something when its name is just a phrase that would suggest that.
From the beginning, investigators have focused on how Butler was using Tesla’s system. Butler told officials and paramedics that he was working as a DoorDash driver and that the car was in FSD mode before he “passed out” while changing music on the car’s touchscreen, according to the affidavit. The affidavit said tests found no alcohol or drugs in his system.
The affidavit says Butler manually pressed the accelerator pedal several times in the neighborhood where the crash occurred, “overriding the default FSD speed.” At one point, the car reached 73 miles per hour on the residential street – more than twice the posted limit. The affidavit also notes there was no brake pedal input recorded in the final minute before the crash.
Tesla executives publicly disputed Butler’s version of events. On social media, they said the driver pressed the accelerator pedal down and kept it pressed even after the crash. The company says FSD doesn’t make its cars self-driving and that drivers still have to stay alert and be ready to step in.
So… A few things.
-
He passed out while changing music?
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He did not attempt to brake at all and kept pressing the accelerator after the crash.
-
So he still was passed out after crashing into a house at 70+ mph?
That’s what he’s saying happened, according to his affidavit, and the data from the vehicle. So the exact same thing would have happened in any other vehicle as well, FSD had little impact on the crash. He passed out pressing the accelerator pedal and crashed into a hosw when the road ended. So maybe without FSD it wouldn’t have driven as straight, instead veering off to the side of the road, still at 70+ mph. Keeping in mind that manually steering the wheel with a modicum of force disengages FSD, so there was little to no force on the wheel.
“passing out” seems like a convenient excuse for “im taking a nap, or fell asleep or im texting or browsing on my phone”. if he doesnt have diabetes, or a sleeping disorder, it would be hard press to prove it.
The company says FSD doesn’t make its cars self-driving
Oh. Really? What’s the meaning of this abbr. again?
‘For Stupid Dickwads’
They really should be held legally accountable for using a name that doesn’t mean what the words mean, especially due to the danger it results in.
Even if it were actually full self driving, when you override it’s still on you
Of course. I mean, what if black paint doesn’t paint things black? Or what’s with salt that doesn’t make things salty? If a builder cannot build things and a cleaner cannot clean anything?
They are all worthless.
Fully Self Driving 👍
Wrong, it’s Fuck Some Dwellings
Oh my God… My neighbors live in some dwellings!
So, first you need to be full, and then you let it drive…?
🤷
Inflammable means flammable? What a country!
Fucking Stupid Dummy
The foot on the accelerator after the crash doesn’t make sense. He would have been thrown around like crazy. I think this points to sensor malfunction or something like that.
I was in an accident, knew it was going to happen, and braced myself. When it was all over, there was a loud noise, and I realized my foot was braced on the accelerator. Since the car had started to roll when I braced myself, this had little bearing on the accident. Also, this driver wasn’t in a state where he was bracing for an accident, but he may have jammed his foot on the pedal when he woke up.
Accelerator / brake pedals have multiple redundant calculations that all happen to combat people saying its a sensor issue, or at least in cars that log that kinda thing, which a Tesla does.
Its such a common accusation that is almost never true, so they’ve done things like that to protect against it.
It could have been some other object. It’s possible that his foot or leg did land on the accelerator in the crash too.
-
So as expected, and as has been the case with almost every case where someone blames FSD or Autopilot, the guy has just been lying through his teeth.
It’s like the people who go and scratch up teslas without realising that they’re on camera. Everything these cars do is logged in a black box type manner. You will not win in court by attempting to say it did something it didn’t.
If they were telling the truth, it almost sounds like a seizure.
Yep, sounds like it - in which case the car did nothing wrong, and it would have happened no matter what car he was driving.
non tesla options do have better sensors and may have handled collision detection better
I don’t know if any car is going to override the driver when their foot is to the floor on the pedal.
Well, 10 year old Skoda Fabia (something like VW Polo, small, cheap car) at work does exactly that. So yes?
So it physically won’t let you run into anything?
Well, probably not. Can’t be 100% sure since it’s not really a thing I’d try to proove in a company car. But it hit the brakes couple times when I was approaching car in front of me too fast for cars liking. And it hit them quite hard, accompanied with alerting sound.
that’s literally how collision detection works
it force brakes
the problem is tesla cheaps out on the sensor suite to save money
Your car would not stop you flying off the road into a house while you have your foot to the floor and going 75mph.
the car can indeed make a difference braking at 75mph
yeah they skimp by only having 7 hi def cameras
visual only isn’t a good thing, when the whole rest of the industry and multiple experts tell you this will kill people
then you proceed to have an outsized crash record and kill people
Not even a black box really, it is stored in the Tesla cloud.
Yeh I was talking about the manner in which everything is recorded :)
The article makes it clear that the car was not in FSD mode
? The article makes it clear the car was in FSD mode, but he passed out and was pressing the accelerator pedal
He also Google searched how to make the fsd more aggressive. All we can do is keep speculating in this thread.
He also Google searched how to make the fsd more aggressive.
I don’t have any experience with FSD specifically, but I used to have a Model 3 with Enhanced Autopilot before I traded in that Nazimobile.
In traffic, Autopilot would definitely leave more space and act “safer” than most other drivers on the road around me. Regularly resulting in people cutting me off, squeezing into spaces they shouldn’t be, etc.
Trying to figure out how to make the car act more like the other traffic is something nearly every Tesla driver has looked into at some point.
FSD has modes you can set. Slow, chill, hurry, and manic, or something like that. You can also tune what each one does, like 5 under limit for chill, five over for manic, etc. Along with all the auto cruise distance etc. settings.
if he hadn’t been in FSD mode and passed out and jammed on the accelerator for 2 minutes, would the crash have been avoided? if not, what is the relevance of it being in FSD before the driver overrode it? Seems like the title framing disingenuously suggests it was a factor in the accident, while the content of the article makes perfectly clear that it was not.
? The article makes it clear the car was in FSD mode, but he [(alledgedly) passed out and] was pressing the accelerator pedal
Pressing the accelerator takes you out of FSD mode.
No, pressing the brake does. The accelerator overrides the speed that the software has chosen but only for the duration the accelerator is pressed. FSD is still engaged.
You can’t say FSD is active when you’re literally controlling the accelerator by pressing it to the floor.
What the fuck?
I don’t think this is true, resources suggest you only override the speed of the FSD
This is true, friend has one. Just like regular cruise control, you can goose it and it returns to self driving. Not for long though I think, then it shuts off.
The other thing not mentioned are the interior cameras, Teslas have interior cameras too so they have him recorded doing whatever he was doing.
I want to believe you, because that’s the sensible way of handling user input. But here’s a forbes article about another incident:
There are four ways to disengage FSD – pressing the accelerator is not one:
- Press the brake pedal.
- If equipped, move the gear stalk upward.
- If equipped, press the right scroll wheel on the steering wheel.
- Take over (grab and jerk) the steering wheel and steer manually.
That’s what I said? The accelerator does not disable self drive, and it’s not in the list.
Oh then I misinterpreted this line to mean the opposite, my bad!
Not for long though I think, then it shuts off.
That Forbes article is also wrong. Pressing the right scroll wheel activates voice command input and does nothing to FSD.
Different models and years behave differently. Cars with no stalks use the right wheel.
It’s not full self driving if you’re pressing the accelerator to the floor.
That’s your opinion, not a truth
well advance the counterpoint, then. here, i’ll get you started, “the car is still in full control when the driver overrides the speed of the vehicle. speed control is not a factor in driving”
What are you even arguing, FSD is a programmed feature in their cars and according to the black box of the car it was turned on at the time of the accident. Period. Read the article.
What your* opinion on what actually constitutes full self driving is completely irrelevant here.
It’s not full self driving to begin with. Never was.
It is, you just have to supervise it.
Then that’s not full self driving. If you can’t fall asleep in the back seat, it’s not full self driving.
