This is republican assholes wanting to protect their oil wealth. Has nothing to do with workers.
Imagine actively destroying the place your kids live to get more money. They’re psychopaths
There’s also a huge about of FUD on EVs being able to be remotely controlled or disabled. The same can be done with gas vehicles that have computers in them and EVs can be made dumb with only the electronics needed for them to function.
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So basically: both sides are as bad as each other and anyway probably it’s all bad anyway?
Even if true that both sides are heavily invested in oil, both sides are not objectively equal on decisions to expand vs limit oil exploration rights, and both sides are not the same in pushing for more electric and less gas, and in improving vs reversing fuel efficiency standards, etc etc
“Kentucky Attorney General Russell Coleman accused President Biden of being “willing to sacrifice the American auto industry and its workers in service of its radical green agenda.”
I mean we could try and transition workers from a more negative industry type to a positive one…but that seems like a lot of work and less profitable, so never mind.
What the actual fuck is wrong with Republican politicians? I mean, I already know what’s wrong with Republican voters - brainwashing by years of Fox “News” - but the politicians? Are they all literal sociopaths?
No, they’re just doing what they’re being paid to do by special interest groups aka big business. It’s not a bug and it’s not a feature; it’s the point. Optimal profits this quarter. Every quarter is a new quasi generation of executives who want a good quarter before moving on after x quarters.
The philosophy behind conservativism is to stay still. Conserve the status. Do not progress.
But you’re describing a standard Dem. Repubs are actively trying to drag us backwards. They are regressives.
I’m already depressed as it is. Why do you have to do me in like that?
That’s a popular misconception. The philosophy behind conservatism is to perpetuate hierarchy. The ideology was developed by literal monarchists, and when the “divine right” excuse became untenable they moved on to others like racism and capitalism, but the goal remained the same. It only seems like they want to maintain the status quo because the historical status quo was hierarchical, but rest assured: if society were magically egalitarian instead, conservatives would vigorously try to make sweeping, wholesale changes to create a hierarchy from scratch.
Interesting insight. Thanks for the correction. Perhaps the choice of lexeme “conservatism” would best be swapped for a neologism like “hierarchism” or something to better describe the principles of the school of thought. Otherwise, I made the connection like OC that conservatism = no change, whether good or bad.
Otherwise, I made the connection like OC that conservatism = no change, whether good or bad.
That’s exactly what they want you to think. It’s one of the more prominent ways in which they launder their ideology to make it seem appealing to more people than just sociopaths. (Or at least, used to, until they went full mask-off under Trump.)
Nothing. They’re behaving quite rationally.
You just have to understand that their motivation is not “successful governing” or “making the world better” but rather, “getting more money.”
When you view their actions through the lens of self-enrichment, they’re behaving quite normally.
Are they all literal sociopaths?
Yes. Just pick one and pay attention to what they do and say for a little while.
I’m really tired of republicans calling anything democrats do “radical” or “extreme” when they’re just pushing for the most mild stuff. I would die for some actual radical left ideas.
There’s also nothing stopping the big three from making EVs.
Yeah but it’s cheaper to just kill the competition than expand into a whole new sector.
So I keep hearing people say:
“Just wait until the big players get into the game, then I’ll buy a good car”.
Imo the big players don’t deserve to survive this transition. They had their opportunity to spearhead it but instead literally chose to be on the wrong side of history.
Nothing stopping big players but greed to get into the EV game.
The American auto industry could also produce EVs, if it so chose. Nobody has to lose their jobs.
Maybe someone should create EV incentives, with a requirement to be manufactured in country - both incentive to buy and incentive to manufacturers to invest in guaranteed growth area, and for their own future. Oops, that’s what we already have
As an American auto worker, I like our move to EVs and the jobs at the massive new factories we built. But I guess wanting blue collar workers learning new skills and technologies makes me a gay communist.
Why gay?
Because nonsensical insults are their bread and butter, and just being a communist isn’t good enough anymore.
just being a communist isn’t good enough anymore.
Especially since they love Russia now (because it’s fascist), but the distinction between the communist USSR and the fascist Russian Federation confuses a lot of their base.
All communists are gay trans fairy men who love satan and hate guns. Didn’t you get the pamphlet?
Cmon go so far right you hit the left and start advocating for public transit and improved mixed use infrastructure to “own the libs”
Are we in a “free market” or we not? The answer is “depends on what lobbyists want.”
Free market involves pluralism of systems and distribution of power as important preconditions. Lobbyism requires monoculture of systems and power being sufficiently centralized to be controllable.
Free for me and not for thee.
Free market goes to the highest bidder.
Lol without all the subsidies gas would be $12/gallon. And burning fossil fuels (40% is automotive) kills more than 250,000 Americans per year. Whats the cost of a human life brah?
I think they’re more commenting on how the supposedly “free market” champions constantly interfere with the market when it suits their agenda
Yes, that’s the point. These politicians interfere and meddle and cry “free market” when it is convenient for them.
Are we in a “free market” or we not?
Not.
This is why I can’t be friends with conservatives of any degree. People always want to say “it’s just politics,” but it has gone beyond that for so fucking long that it’s not even a discussion I’m willing to have anymore.
Politics were and have always been personal.
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And they expect you to hold their beliefs or stay silent. If you express a contrary opinion, you are the one bringing politics into the discussion. It’s like playing chess with a pigeon.
Look up thos congresspersons’ donor history
Bet my bottom dollar they’re getting donations from groups that tie back to the auto industry
Get the fucking money out of politics
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But they don’t want to. They’re only selling EVs of any sort to stay competitive and compliant with regulation. Toyota has all but said fuck EVs.
The weird part is, when you actually talk to a Conservative irl, they don’t care about EVs. Sure they might not like them—they might even think they’re a Political scheme or whatever. But they at least understand that there are more important things happening. Politicians failure to represent their user base’s viewpoint in the US is always astounding.
It’s too late. We’ve already hit the tipping point. Many of my neighbors have EVs now. They’re everywhere in my city and I’m not in a major city. They’re just plain better cars and now people know it. It’s too late.
Never underestimate the Republican ability to turn things into a culture war. My very conservative neighbor has an F-150 Lightning that his work provides him. When he first got it, he loved it and drove it everywhere. He truly seemed to believe that EVs were a better way to drive.
Then a few months ago he started making comments from the Fox News bubble. Things like, “the power grid just can’t support all these EVS” and “these EVs are so heavy that they’re destroying our roads” (note he has one child, and he bought his wife a 5,800 lb Yukon, so don’t tell me he honestly cares about vehicle weight).
Recently he bought a new ICE vehicle (a Bronco). I truly believe that he was this close to accepting that EVs have many advantages over ICE vehicles, but then he consumed enough right wing news to prevent him from making the switch long term.
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Is Elon playing some 4D chess?
…nah he’s just a massive douche.
This is literally the one upside to that oxygen thief.
There’s a load of right-wing knuckle-draggers who view him as real-life iron man and therefore everything he touches is cool by default to them.
Tesla being the EV of choice for selfish idiots because of him still means fewer ICE vehicles on the road, at least
Abortions were pretty popular for awhile too but the GOP still uh finds a way. Never underestimate the power of angry idiots in large numbers. Have you seen who is a serious contender for the presidency this year?
All that we want to do is see to it that we live another 100 years is that so god damn polarizing?!?!
But what if global warming is a hoax and we improve things for no reason?! /s
What if we do all this and all we got was more sustainable ways of living where depended less on complex geopolitical agreements with dictators? That would suck right /s
It’s all about the Petrodollar and America retaining the worlds reserve currency
I thought so too, but it doesn’t even make sense, because the only one they’re hurting this way is themselves.
If they don’t adopt EVs, it will be to their disadvantage in the long run.
“Long run” what’s that? The only thing that matters is quarterly profits.
unfortunately
Jesus, what a stupid fucking hill to die on. Republicans never cease to amaze and appall.
Yeah, I don’t get it. I understand wanting to reduce or eliminate subsidies (they’re just a cash handout to dealers and manufacturers imo), but there’s no logical reason to be against EVs.
Here’s my proposal: allow tax credits for private sales. Perhaps add some requirements to certify that the seller owned the car more than a year or something to qualify to prevent flipping.
There is a logical reason to be against forced adoption before the technology matures. For a lot of the country they are not a viable replacement for ICE yet. They’re improving, but not as fast as ICEs are being phased out and that leaves a lot of places where a dwindling used market will be the only option for many people.
Hybrids: am I a joke to you?
They’re a joke to all the manufacturers that went all in on EVs before the market fell out from under them.
What are you talking about? Pretty much the only thing I see on the used market are ICE vehicles. Do you live somewhere where they’re legitimately hard to find?
Prices for even 200k mile used vehicles are skyrocketing and cheap new cars simply don’t exist. Yes, ICE is the majority of vehicles out there, especially in rural areas, but they are more expensive and less available than ever. 10 years ago I bought a 100k mile Volvo wagon for $10k, put 50k more miles on it then sold it for $5k; if I wanted to buy the exact same car back today with 250k miles i would need to pay $15k for it. As manufacturers shift to EVs that problem is only going to get worse.
If only they actually would die on that hill. They won’t, because they’ve conditioned their base to support them no matter what. Instead, they’ll rot the hill and move on to the next once the one they’re on can’t be salvaged.
In a statement, Kentucky Attorney General Russell Coleman accused President Biden of being “willing to sacrifice the American auto industry and its workers in service of its radical green agenda.”
If you look up the 10 most “Made in America” cars, the top 4 slots by a huge margin are Tesla Model 3,Y,S,X , which are all EVs, and they are at near 100% (or 100% for some models). There isn’t another American car brand on the list. So when Coleman is talking about sacrificing American auto workers, who’s he talking about? A car that is 40% American because all the parts are made in China or Mexico and there’s some final assembly done in the USA?
P.S. Musk is an idiot, though I’m not sure that needs to be said anymore as its so obvious.
the top 4 slots by a huge margin are Tesla Model 3,Y,S,X
Is that true? I saw recently that 95% of Tesla’s cars are the Model Y. I assume a huge chunk of the remaining 5% is the Model 3, leaving very few Model S and X cars on the road. I’d be very surprised to hear that either one of them is in the top 4 best selling American made cars.
Edit: Just looked up this article of best selling cars in 2024, which includes non-American made cars.
Removing those, it looks like it’s:
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Ford F-Series: 152,943 units sold
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Chevrolet Silverado: 127,563 units sold
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Tesla Model Y: 109,000 units sold
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Ram Pickup: 89,417 units sold
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GMC Sierra: 68,597 units sold
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Ford Explorer: 58,465 units sold
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Jeep Grand Cherokee: 54,455 units sold
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Chevrolet Equinox: 54,185 units sold
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Tesla Model 3: 42,000 units sold (Looks like my 95% number was way off)
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Ford Transit: 39,890 units sold
I’d be very surprised to hear that either one of them is in the top 4 best selling American made cars.
I said nothing about top sales. I said “most made in America”. As in: of all cars sold in the USA, what are the top 10 which contain the most American manufactured parts and labor".
how was that figured out? most evs have a less complex manufacturing process and rely on a shitload of electronic components that aren’t manufactured domestically. i’d be interested to see the methodology!
i’d be interested to see the methodology!
You’re welcome to read this 158 page PDF from the CBO https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/97th-congress-1981-1982/reports/1982_08_16_domestic.pdf
The main legislation comes from the Automobile Information Disclosure Act.
i meant the claim that teslas are the top made in america cars. i looked and found cars.com’s list of the most made in america cars and their dubious Made in America Index and that’s about it.
i also want to just throw an electronics manufacturing industry scoff at the CBOs methodology. i used to work for an electronics manufacturer that did mostly pcb assembly. a bunch of the work was government contracts or prestige stuff that had to say “made in USA” on it as opposed to the more clear symbol of a hollowed out manufacturing sector, “assembled in USA”. every day truckloads of parts from china would get soldered to PCBs from iirc taiwan and that was enough to earn made versus assembled.
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Is this why Elon is working so hard to run Tesla into the ground? 5d chess, something something…
They are trying to discredit Elon it is just getting dumb
If by “they” you mean Elon himself then yes and it sure is getting dumb.
Honestly, dumping tons of money into tech that has so many problems may not he the best idea.
How do you think technology matures? It took years for automobiles to become reliable like they are today. It’ll take years for EVs to become mature, but the only way to do that is to work on them now and improve as we go along. The absolute wrong thing to do is throw out the entire concept because they aren’t perfect now.
It’s almost like any new technology starts out with problems that get solved through time, money, and resources.
…that shouldn’t be provided by the government.
So I take it you’re against the government subsidizing science research in general? “The government shouldn’t fund new technology” is a stupid and destructive position. We’d be living in the 1800s if it were up to solely the capitalistic market. I mean, the first broadly effective antibiotics that are responsible for saving probably hundreds of millions of lives at least only exist because of people working in government-funded labs, under government-funded universities, for the government. Why should the environment be treated like it doesn’t matter to our civilization?
What problems
Inb4 “both parties are the same”.
While I hate stuff like these rollbacks, we are already starting to see EVs save people money on gas and service, and they are stupidly fast compared to ICE counterparts. That’s something Americans of all stripes can get behind.
Once I tried an ebike, I realized I never wanted to go back to gas engines. So fast, so much torque, and pennies to charge vs $70 gas tanks at Costco (even more at a normal gas station). It just makes economic sense to run PEVs in all major urban areas in addition to mass transit.
With traffic and some protected bike lanes, even a conventional bike can almost beat a car in a 7-14 mile drive in my city. An ebike makes it even easier.
I’d be riding an ebike right now, if I knew how I could park it safely :/ do you typically bring it with you?
I use an Oxford Monster chain and U lock. I park my bike in highly visible areas. Registered it with 529 garage and have the tracking sticker on it. And if I’m really sketched out, I activate a bike alarm that is ungodly loud.
Mostly, it’s about making your bike harder to steal. Cutting through 12mm chain and a standard ulock sucks. Getting caught with it being easily identified on 529 makes it risky to steal and easy to be returned. Some cities also do bike valet or bike lockers.
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So basically, one side is a hive mind that’s required to always do what its most powerful members want, and the other has free thinkers that sometimes disagree, and you’re saying that the latter is weak, pointless, and should never exist.
Buddy, this is a terrible definition of “weak”. What you’re describing is a goddamn borg cube.
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I have arrived! Both parties are the same! No affordable EV’s for you! Keep slurrrrping that petrol!
Hike tariffs on Chinese EVs, Senate Democrats urge Biden administration
“Artificially low-priced Chinese EVs flooding the U.S. would cost thousands of American jobs and endanger the survival of the U.S. automotive industry as a whole.”
So there are politicans who really believe that climate change is a conspiracy? Or they just don’t care for the future?
Electric cars aren’t going to fix climate change
Electric trains might, but we’re even worse at building them than cars.
Are we? Diesel-ev hybrid is fairly effective and proven. Making a pure ev would just mean taking the diesel out, adding more batteries and installing electrical rail or over head trolley cables to charge them. Trains run on a schedule, so logistic planning should be straight forward.
Are we?
Recently, yes. California’s spent 16 years not building rail. The Gulf Coast states have been tearing their rail out and replacing it with highways for over a decade. The Upper Midwest has just kinda given up on doing anything useful, and just watched its transit infrastructure collapse.
My point is is that the tech is there. There’s just an unwillingness.
In the states, certainly. Elsewhere, its wildly popular.
The problem is that highway advocates don’t solve the problem of “who’s going to pay for all this?”. The reason infrastructure in America is in disrepair is that funding for highways is supposed to be gotten from tolls and road taxes. But since everywhere in America is a freeway… there’s no funding for repairs.
Expecting the Government budget to cover maintenance of infrastructure is wishful thinking… unless you’re also willing to agree that the military is allocated too much money.
funding for highways is supposed to be gotten from tolls and road taxes.
Regressive taxation leads to overfunded main roads and underfunded side streets.
Expecting the Government budget to cover maintenance of infrastructure is wishful thinking
Roads are fundamental to the operation of any government. It isn’t simply that states need to maintain roads. It is that states need roads in order to exist.
Roads are fundamental to the operation of any government. It isn’t simply that states need to maintain roads. It is that states need roads in order to exist.
Is it right to say then, that the users of the roads pay for maintenance? Do you expect the government to print more money to pay for maintenance?
Edit:
Regressive taxation leads to overfunded main roads and underfunded side streets.
As opposed to both main roads and side streets being underfunded without tolls and road taxes? Do you expect Government to print money to pay for all this?
Remaining rich depends on them not believing climate change
There’s an enormous amount of money in renewable energy and battery manufacturing. That’s why Texas leads the nation in wind farm power and Atlanta, Georgia is getting a $4.3B investment at its Hyundai electric vehicle plant.
But there’s also a ton of legacy infrastructure that generates enormous revenue streams. If you’ve just invested billions into our rapidly expanding oil pipeline network
You’re not going to want us to give up on mineral extraction across the American northwest or central plains.
This is a real clash of industries.
